MMmm.. that new unit appears to have done away with the vendor-specific shoe/adapters.. looks like perhaps a single unit can be reprogrammed to work with any of the major brands.. nifty.

It'll have AC

Sooo, does it matter what lighting I use in the room? I'm looking at fluorescents at the moment

FLUORESCENTS !!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

I think that covers that point

Unless you get some really really nice ones you'll get a lovely green cast to your pictures which is really hard to get rid of and can leave photos looking flat.

Cheers

Cris

A green cast won't be a problem with a correct WB setting - which can remain locked on the camera to be used in that room. And if the lighting will remain constant you can gel your strobes to match as well (read strobist.com . It's when you start playing with mixed ambient lighting that you're going to run into nightmare situations.

Whatever lighting is decided upon, it would be a good idea to have the capability to dial it back so it doesn't contribute to the photograph and instead the photo is lit by your strobes or other purpose-positioned lighting. Overhead lighting alone isn't gong to produce the most flattering images, especially in a room painted black or grey. You're going to get unflattering shadows.

But if you're gong to use the lighting only for when you're setting up equipment, it doesn't really matter what you use as long as it doesn't alter your own perception of what you're looking at. Use something with high CRI if you want to see an accurate representation (with your own eyes) of the garments.

He'll only get a green cast if he mixes lighting types. If *everything* in the room uses the same colour fluorescents, then the camera's manual white balance feature will give colour correct images.

But usually there is a mix of lighting.. in which case beware the green cast.

And WTF is with the BBSFirefox trying to tell me I'm spelling colour and fluorescent incorrectly??? This is an international forum with an international mix of people, and it really shouldn't be inflicting one country's poor speling on the rest of us!

EDIT: fixed by installing a British English dictionary extension.

The BBS spell checks? I think maybe it's your linux computer dong it..

As Cris said, florescent lights aren't something you probably want to use to illuminate the things that you're shooting. They're just fine to have in the ceiling for other non-photographic purposes. When you're ready to do a shoot, you turn them off and go with your fancy strobes.

Among other things, overhead lighting casts odd shadows on people's faces. Do you want dark eyes and shadows under the nose? No you don't. If you're shooting inanimate things, you still want the flexibility to rearrange the lighting to emphasize or deemphasize things. For example, if you're shooting some kind of deliberately wrinkled cloth, then you want to light it, at least in part, from the side so you get lots of shadows that emphasize the depth of the wrinkling.

Thanks Bruno for the photography tips. I'll have to remember them for my next paid assignment. So far I'm really lucky that all the weddings I've ever shot have only had one type of lighting in each frame. Not.

Fluorescents are ok for plain lighting, but most have a very narrow spectrum, which may not work very well if colour reproduction is key. There are good ones out there of course, but cheap just doesn't cut it when it comes to lighting.

Has the decision been taken if you are going to use flash lighting or not ??? If you are then the ambient light in the room is totally irrelevant.

Cheers

Cris

Do you do a lot of wedding shoots in a studio? Wedding photography is nothing at all like studio photography. We might as well be talking about portrait painting and house painting.

BTW, no need to be sarcastic, there are plenty of (I'd say "many") working professionals that don't know half as much about photography and lighting as the people in this BBS.

A studio implies control and given the space we're talking about it also implies some compromise. Even with AC it would probably be foolish to light "the room" with hot tungsten. Fluorescents can be used very effectively and won't produce as much heat. Put them on a fancy thing called a light switch and they can also *gasp* be turned off. I recall saying something about that earlier.

It's doubtful they'd be used to light the subjects for the reasons already given by Dan, Mark and myself.

As I'm sure you know, every light source will produce a colour cast if you don't set your camera appropriately. And if you're using strobes along with any other non-strobe light source (excepting daylight), you've got to (or should) contend with balancing and filtering your light no matter what. Do you want an orange cast from tungsten?

IMO, a low-cost, portable and very straight-forward way to shoot in that small room would be to use remote speedlights. Use them with the Canon or Nikon built-in remote systems, PocketWizards, Radio Poppers or even eBay triggers. Get at least 3 speedlights and some modifiers for them - plus of course light stands.

In such a small room it would be a PITA to be messing around with power or sync cords.

Umm, actually yes. I shoot in the studio all the time. I shoot using available light too, and I mix that with flash on just about every job. Here is a recent example of my studio work using a simple 3 light setup...



If you've ever shot in the studio you'll know that the whole idea is to control the light using the flash and to cut out the available light altogether, from what is being discussed here I get the impression that continuous lights are being considered to light the subject. This is not such a good idea. You start getting a mix of colour casts as you suggest, using a simple flash lighting setup will be a much better option.

Speedlights are ok, and I use them a hell of a lot, but for prolonged use by inexperienced people they are not a first option. Something with a modelling light in will allow the inexperienced user to climb the learning curve a lot quicker. On the whole studio flash units recycle quicker and stand up to heavy use better, if purchased via somewhere like the Flash Centre, as I suggested in my original post, you also get a level of support that even CPS (I'm a Canon user I'm sure Nikon will do something too) can't match.



Sometimes yeah...



When the subject is lit with a cold source the tungsten background can be very welcome indeed.

If you are Canon shooter choose pocketwizard, they are worth the money. Nikon has a really nice wireless system that hasn't ever let me down the few times I've used it recently, so stick with that if you can until pocketwizard finally release the new TT5's for Nikon. While you may not need to shoot TTL now they are a much better investment than the Plus II's as they are pretty much future proof. eBay triggers are ok for strobists but not in a professional environment.

Cheers

Cris

This interests me. I've never used a DSLR other than to play with friends' cameras at parties. So I don't know what kinds of settings they have. But how do you white-balance the camera for a flash? All of the point-n-shoot cameras I've seen with manual white balance features don't fire off the flash when you hit the white balance menu option. So they can only be white balanced for available light, not for the flash. Do the DSLR's have an option for white balancing with the flash?

I always shoot RAW so the camera is left to auto white balance, fine adjustment is done in Lightroom 3. You can set either one of a few pre sets or a kelvin value, unless you have a colour meter with you I think shooting RAW and AWB is the best way to go most of the time.

Cheers

Cris.

So Cris, you're pretty much, saying what I've already said. I don't have any first-hand experience with any modern studio lighting, so I can't make brand recommendations, but I'd still recommend a few speedlights in addition to studio strobes. They're not terribly expensive (in the grand scheme of things) and have tremendous utility.

And BTW, neither of those shots are wedding shots.

I don't know if I'd ever risk touching PocketWizard's new stuff. They seem completely outclassed by Radio Popper stuff in the past few years. The whole TTL product release was a complete shambles first for the Canon and then the eternity of waiting for the Nikon kit that was supposed to come out "next month." So Canon users can now put a sock on their speedlights and cross their fingers that the triggering will work, and Nikon users can keep on waiting like they have for well over a year already (it was due Q2 2009).

Honestly, (personally) I'd probably go with RP JrX with speedlights that support quench to allow manual remote control from the RP mounted on the camera. For TTL and compatibility with what the manufacturer already offers, I'd probably stay with RP as well (PX system), since their stuff seems to have already proven itself. For complete manual use and an easy no-brainer setup once you've got enough experience with the product, I'd probably go with a set of older PocketWizards - and I'd buy them used.

Why do you always have to behave like an absolute prick Bruno?

As an enthusiastic amateur and having seen the work Cris produces, I can't see why I'd ever want to take photography advice from you. Unless you'd like to show us some examples of the work you produce? Otherwise I don't see how you're even in a position to comment on this topic.

Andy, I felt Cris was the one being a prick. But I *still* didn't treat him badly. I *still* didn't use sarcasm.

He came at a point I made and tossed it out by misquoting and bringing up a wedding example which wasn't at all applicable to the studio. Then in the latest post everything except using speedlights is in complete agreement with the points I've been making all along.

And that's fine. It's part of participating in a forum.

The latest post quotes my "wedding shots in the studio" question with a "yes" answer and then pictures which are anything but wedding - one is a studio shot and the other is a location shoot. A location shoot, but a planned and well executed one, where Cris has controlled the lighting. Not related to the studio setup that was being discussed.

Is there some problem where english on this BBS gets understood differently once it crosses to the UK?

When I'm talking out my ass, you can feel free to call me on it. I wouldn't make a recommendation if I didn't know what I was talking about. I'm not a professional photographer - It's just not something I find pays well enough for the investment, though I thoroughly enjoy the hobby and have a lot of education and experience in it.

Your post on the other hand is just out of place, antagonistic, rude and completely off-topic.

FWIW, there's an ignore feature on the board. "Ignore this user" on the user's profile page. It's not a terribly good implementation, though.

Bruno's reality distortion field has changed, for me, though, from really irritating, to absolutely hysterical. It helps to guess what his response is going to be before you read it, and see how close you come.

I'm batting about .850 these days, I think.

So you're basically saying you have no experience in this area, but yet are offering advice and questioning others ???



Without doubt the stupidest thing I have ever seen you post on here. I think those shots both prove I have a very good understanding of studio lighting as well as using speedlights on location. And how the hell do you know that Ron & Dorothy were not renewing their vows ??? If you want to see some wedding photography check out my blog and try and tell me where I used flash and where I didn't.



Yet again, any actual experience with PocketWizard? I own and use MultiMax, Plus II and TT5's. The TT5 are the most reliable and feature packed triggers out there, remember we are in the UK where the RF problems are not so evident. I use them almost everyday, in all sorts of situations. I've tried eBay triggers, Skyport, broncolor and Profoto triggers. PocketWizard every time. If you are weekend warrior I'm sure that the other solutions are ok, but in a professional environment there is nothing better out there.



Getting a little tired of saying this, but yet again have you ever used the TT5 in a studio? It does everything that the others in the range to, and if you buy the new elinchrom units you can do a hell of a lot more. See my original recommendation that a visit to The Flash Centre who stock all these solution for specific advice.

Cheers

Cris.

No, but you are now openly calling me a prick in a public forum. Nice.



Ok, you are talking out of your arse, you always talk out of your arse, but the people here are generally to polite to say it. You don't know what you are talking about in this area as you have already said you haven't shot in a studio.

Can you not see my point, the language you choose to use is very confusing, in once sentence you say you know what you are talking about, in the next that you are not a pro. Very confusing.



Or totally spot on you prick. Now that is being rude. Lets take it from now on if I am being rude to you I'll be that blunt, if I'm not that blunt I'm not being rude, does that make it a little simpler for you to understand ???

Cheers

Cris.

Bitt, my argument is that knowing Cris, working with him, and seeing the work he produces makes it hard for me think that Bruno genuinely knows better. Especially since he doesn't seem to have any work to back up his statements/opinions.

Cris, let me jump back because I want to clear the air here and would really rather not continue this conversation. Why do you feel you have to prove that you have experience? At no point in time did I, or anyone else that I noticed, question your experience. I offered suggestions based on what I had experience with and based on some of the points made previously.

I understand that as a professional you might not want to read recommendations from those who aren't and may not even respect them. That's fine too. But since Tahir posted this for everyone to read, I believe it's fair game for anyone to contribute to. I value your opinion as a professional and I certainly at no point in time tried to indicate otherwise, even when I had some recommendations that may not have aligned precisely with what you mentioned.

Everything I've mentioned from a technical standpoint you've agreed with - you can go back and read the posts again if you'd like to double-check. Ok, you recommend a grey room while I recommend black (due to the size). The most recent being that both of agree that room lighting for setup doesn't matter much when it's not going to be factored into the shot, and that all artificial lighting will have a colour cast that must be dealt with by the camera, filters and/or post.

This isn't a pissing contest, so please take it easy as no one is calling into question *your* experience. You should know from dealing with other people in your field that there are wildly varying opinions on all manners of gear, even for photographers that otherwise overlap in professional focus. So when someone in a forum that has been participating along side you for many years has some different thoughts, you shouldn't be offended by them.

Incidentally, the last time I used studio strobes was with film, B&W and colour from 1991 to 1994 while at university, studying, among other things, Photography. Since I decided not to enter a commercial photography career, I've never invested in studio strobes. With regards to triggers, I briefly used an original Plus almost 10 years ago. I have been following the RP and PW line very closely for some 3 years and was really excited about the Flex line. Only let down by reviews and the perpetual vapor status of the Nikon kit. I don't shoot Canon. So today, the Flex is off the table, maybe next year it won't be. The RP stuff works with studio lights and speedlights, making them very attractive - plus they've had remote power control working longer than PW have. The smaller package is a bonus, price is somewhat irrelevant (in this instance).

I wasn't commenting on your argument, Andy; I was just providing some, uh, workarounds for the issue involved.

Agreed Bitt, thanks.

Ummm so do the TT5's. Do you see what I find what you say so irritating when you clearly don't know what you are talking about. And sure you never said the TT5's don't work with studio flash, but that's not my point.

And for the record we are not saying the same things at all, the difference between a grey and black room is massive. A grey back drop/wall will give the photographer way more options, from blown out white to black.

I'm not going to take this conversation any further, but I will say when I clearly don't know much about a topic on here, like the boxee one, I read and follow with interest without the need to comment on every single thing.

Cheers

Cris

Cris, the RP JrX are not TTL, which were the units I mentioned being interested in and the ones that have been able to connect to studio lights since they came out. I don't find it irritating that you're not familiar with this product line and have a preference for your own gear.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but the Flex transceiver only works with Canon Speedlights, not studio strobes. You'll need adapters such as the AC9 for use with Alien Bees strobes or a different receiver, like the PowerST4 for others. These adapters are also a lot more recent than the ControlTL system itself, and in some respects, an answer to the proposition put forth by the RP product line. The Control TL was PW's answer to RP's PX series which was the first aftermarket kit to work with Canon and Nikon's proprietary remote/slave systems.

Oh, I know that black and grey are completely different. Worked with both in school and for a small space much prefer black, especially when doing still work, like mannequins, plants, etc. It allows one to control much more easily, light spill bounced from other walls. In such a small room it's still trivial to throw up a background of one sort or another, but not always trivial to reduce light output enough so the walls appear black if including them in the shot.

But because I don't have my own studio set up right now, everything I'm saying must be wrong. And any professional photographer who happens to agree or have something like this set up is also wrong. Though I'm not sure why.

Anyway, peace, this thread is yours. I try my hardest to understand things I may not be initially familiar with, but while it's pretty straight forward to master things of a technical nature, it's impossible to always figure out people. At least specific people.

BTW, please feel free (and welcome) to contribute in the Boxee thread. You don't need to have a Box to have an opinion on UI design and features.

Just a little more info on radio triggers.

RadioPopper PX price for a set plus an STE2 (needed as a canon shooter) is approx £540. A PocketWizard MiniTT1 and FlexTT5 will cost you £388 and have full UK dealer support and offer you a smaller overall physical size than the RadioPopper system. So smaller and almost 30% cheaper.

I really can't praise PocketWizard enough, they are the one single piece of kit that has transformed my photography. Just the other week I was shooting a timelapse airside at Heathrow, I was able to use my MultiMax to remotely control the camera and the frame rate from just about anywhere I went on the site. Very useful. As a system it's so flexible and all interchangeable. As your needs grow you'll find it was money well spent. And if your needs don't grow they seem to hold their value quite well too.

Like I've been saying all along, get yourself down to http://www.theflashcentre.com/ they know their stuff, I'm so lucky to have a branch here in Leeds 10 minutes from my house.

Cheers

Cris.

I thought I had just corrected you, but I'll do it again. The pocketwizard flex system can do everything the MultiMax/Plus II system can as well as TTL. It even uses the same cables to the large part. Cables are cheap and standard. The AC9 and the like allow remote control of power but you can use manual without buying that. So to be clear the TT5/TT1 can control a manual studio flash with the correct cable (the same one as if you were using a Plus II).

It's also worth mentioning that PocketWizard is built into lots of Pro Gear, for example my light meter and studio pack have it built right in. I'm totally wireless, you can't do that with any other system at the moment. While not everyone will use these features I think it goes to show how flexible the system is.

Cheers

Cris

Oh.. I suppose it could be something in Firefox, then.. so the dictionary it uses is likely replaceable.. I'll have a hunt for it.

Thanks

Also, I'm pretty sure that there's only one way to spell "fluorescent". Chances are that you actually misspelled it.

en_CA dictionary for Firefox

No, I spelled it exactly as shown in the post above. The USA spell-checker wanted the "u" removed.

I've got a British English dictionary in there now, and it's much happier with the international English spellings, though oddly it does insist that the words English and French be capitalized. I don't know if that's normally required or not.. Bitt?