I just wanted to say goodbye to everyone while I get sucked into a computer game for 3 months. Went shopping last night and picked up the new Gran Tourismo game for the Playstation 2. I was just going to watch the opening movie and see what they changed before going to bed last night. Two hours later, I had to force the controler out of my hand and make myself go to bed.

To say this game is photo-realistic is the understatment of the century! You really aren't playing a game anymore. You are controling a TV show of car racing. It is that real. The gameplay is slower than that of GT2 but the acuracy is incredibly realistic now. This truely has become a simulation type game in all aspects. The number of cars has been reduced from 250+ to about 80 cars but the level of detail and control has enhansed 2 fold. They basically got rid of all the family cars, stationwagons, and SUVs from the lineup and kept the sports cars and GT cars. But can still race Honda Civics or the Cooper Mini. The number of tracks has increased but the detail on all tracks is much higher. You can actually see individual people in the stands reacting to the cars.

Best feature, the radio! GT has been known to have great music on their games but there was about 5 tracks which got shuffled around as you played. GT3 has about 25 songs on it and you can customize the way they play. The replays are like watching TV. It is indescribable how incredibly accurate it is. I am almost afraid to put the PS2 on a HDTV because I believe you will not be able to tell you are playing a game at all. Oh, and i.LINK is enabled for this game so you can race 2 people per console and Firewire link another console in for 4 player games.

I have only started playing and getting licenses but I can see a lot of time invested in this game.

Kazama

heh.. yea..

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2001-07-13

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

I have a 53 inch Sony HDTV ready set with line and pixel doubling.... I am so tempted to buy a PS2 just for this game....

32GB (JUST UPGRADED!) Mk. II BLUE
Detroit, MI USA
www.PfeifferBeer.com

I'll bring mine over!!


|| loren.cox ||

This is Penny Arcade's description about said comix:

About today's strip: We are so totally in the minority on this one. Aside from the outpouring of affection I see almost daily for the title, I mean, take a look at GameRankings. 97% average review? That's as much consensus as you're likely to see, on anything, in this day and age. It looks like Goddamn television, when those fancy cars run around. The control is, I'm certain, as much like driving a car as can be squeezed into a dual shock. I think that this series is just wasted on us, though. We've never been looking for a sim when we step up to a console racer - we're not looking for accurately modeled whooziwhatsits or gear ratios. To tell you the truth, I don't know if gear ratios are even a real thing. The fact is, I don't want to know about that stuff in a game any more than I do in real life. It's like talking about the uterus or ovaries or something, they represent layers of terrifying mystery that I'd just as soon leave to the experts. We're both of the opinion that Ridge Racer Type 4 is the sweet-spot for people who just want pleasure out of a racer - in our minds, all racing games aspire to this standard. It simply doesn't get any better.

Just ordered the Logitech GT3 (wingman) force feedback racing wheel for this bad boy!
This game is so good i dare say it could teach the novice basics of real racing!! Now My PSX2 Makes my monster PC look Like a pocket calculator.

Now... How to figure out how to extract the audio tracks to convert to MP3 for my Empeg!!! Hey, before you flame... I already paid for them.

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

on the old psx games the audio tracks would just show up like a audio cd on some games I doubt if these are that easy

My wheel arrived yesterday... Heh heh.

...Can someone help me unlock the Empeg option on the car settings screen?

Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue
"Honey, you're wasting ammo..."

Is there any truth in the rumour that the PSX2 has a USB port, hence enabling you to use PC USB wheels with it ?

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Rod, UK Mk2 64gig Red S/No.341 2xDell RioReceiver

yes, it does indeed have a USB port...two of them actually. As for whether or not you can use PC wheels... i don't know for sure, but i doubt it.


|| loren.cox ||

The developers of each game would have to specifically include support for a given PC wheel in the game itself, right? It wouldn't be plug-and-play automatic I don't think.

___________
Tony Fabris

Shame.

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Rod, UK Mk2 64gig Red S/No.341 2xDell RioReceiver

The Logitech GT3 or "known as the old PC wingman" is such a racing wheel.
It is USB and will function on both your PSX2 and your PC as long as you get the GT3 version and then go download drivers (PC wingman) from logitechs site for your PC too.

As for the music files.... I have not done any real work yet but they are not at all listed in any logical form. Looks like they are compressed into a giant bin file. (with the rest of the game - around 4 gig)

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

It'd be easier to simply hook up the PS2's optical out (SPDIF) interface to your computer and record the audio that way. That's what I did with the tunes for SSX... =)

Also, this game is i.Link (Firewire) enabled. SO not only could you use USB controlers, but you can i.Link two consoles together and race 4 people against each other.

Greg

Actually, you can't do that. iLink split screen games are not supported (never got round to finishing it). What you can do is buy an iLink hub and have up to 6 PS2s and 6 tv's playing the game full screen.

Even better, if you have 3 PS2s and 3 TVs, you can play one player with the first tv being forward view and the other two tvs being left and right view.

Andy

p.s. I just meant the creator of Gran Turismo - top bloke. He was at the big launch party at HMV Oxford Street

26GB MKII Blue #090000727

Excellent Idea... thanks.

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

goto dreamcastcopyworld and have a look there at removing the audio filed from bin/cue format.

they have a site for ps2 now and i would assume the information would be parallel.

This truly has become a simulation type game in all aspects.

Could you elaborate a bit on this? I am presently having a mild dispute with another bbs member who shall remain nameless (other than he sometimes goes by the handle "Monkey Brains") who maintains that this is an arcade game, not a simulation, and is thus does not reflect truly realistic racing. In other words, he says authenticity has been compromised in order to make the play action more entertaining.

There is certainly nothing wrong with this -- after all, video games are GAMES whose primary purpose is entertainment. It is just that I have heard reports from other sources that the game realism and the physics of the car handling in GT-3 is extraordinarily true to life.

Can you offer any insights?

tanstaafl.



"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

I don't know what other simian-brained BBS user you might be referring to , but I would like to mention that anyone hyping the "realism" for this game is either (a) talking about photorealism in the graphics, which the game does have in spades, or (b) has only ever played console/arcade racers and never played a true driving sim with realistic physics.

___________
Tony Fabris

Its nothing like a game such as Gran Prix Legends. However GPL was a flop when it came out, GT3 is intended to be accessible to all levels of player.

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Rod, UK Mk2 64gig Red S/No.341 2xDell RioReceiver

I think people call GT3 realistic mainly because controlling the cars is a b*tch compared to most other racing games. For example, the cars actually have momentum, so you tend to oversteer massively when you first play the game. GT3 might not have simulator-quality realism, but it's more realistic than most racing games people play (ie mariokart).

-Adam

Could you elaborate a bit on this? I am presently having a mild dispute with another bbs member who shall remain nameless (other than he sometimes goes by the handle "Monkey Brains") who maintains that this is an arcade game, not a simulation, and is thus does not reflect truly realistic racing. In other words, he says authenticity has been compromised in order to make the play action more entertaining.


Let me start off with a quote from GameSpot's review of GT-3:
Some would argue that Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec isn't the most accurate racing or driving simulator currently available, and those people would be correct. There are and have been many specialized games that more realistically depict a single aspect of motor sports--games like Grand Prix II, Mobil 1 Rally Championship, NASCAR Racing 3, F355 Challenge, Le Mans 24 Hours, and Grand Prix Legends. However, no one game has ever captured the broad essence of driving cars that hail from all walks of auto-racing life like Gran Turismo 3 does, and certainly no one game has ever offered the depth contained within this ambitious game.


While I would agree that this is not a "true simulation" I also believe that only "driving enthusiasts" will notice. There are obvious things like cars can not flip over and damage to a car does not affect performance which a true simulatin would take into account. But every other detail seems to have been accounted for. For example, the Honda Civic in GT3 responds and reacts exactly the same way my Honda Civic does in RL under the same conditions. The sublte differences of speed and power do not take away from the realistic experience of the game but Joe Average won't even notice. I also feel they have balanced simulation with graphic realism. To truely be a simulation, it should simulate everything which means cars, environment, handling, power, and everything you would be faced with in RL.

In essense, you are both correct. The game is not a true simulation but it is also not a true acade game. It is an incredible mix of the two genres to create an incredibly accurate and beautiful game that is easy to pick up and play. Also, you may be interested that ther is a disussion forum for GT games called Gran Tourismo by the numbers where they are debating these very issues. They also have a forum to join GT racing clubs and a great write up of a recent GT Party where they had 5 tvs connected through iLink.

Greg

Its nothing like a game such as Gran Prix Legends.

Based on a recommendation from "Monkey Brains" I have purchased Grand Prix Legends on ebay. It was with some misgivings that I committed myself to such a massive expenditure ($11.95 plus $4.99 shipping!) but what the heck, I might as well live life on the edge!

The idea behind this was to see if I liked driving games in general enough to spring for the ACT Labs force feedback wheel and pedals. (To start off with I'll just be playing with my joystick. When I get tired of doing that maybe I'll try the computer game... )

It sounds as though GT-3 for the PS-2 has really hit the "sweet spot" in terms of compromise between reality and playability.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Be prepared for GPL to consume all available free time. After the very simple install you will find you want to add several patches from places like this
, then you will hunt around and download many other tracks that people have designed, plus you might want to download some other peoples setups to get some ideas how to set the car up ! The game cost me £10, the new graphics card, new PC and new FF wheel considerably more. When you get to this point, you will discover WinVroc and what follows is many evenings of multiplayer ( 20 ) internet games


- --
Rod, UK Mk2 64gig Red S/No.341 2xDell RioReceiver

After the very simple install you will find you want to add several patches from places like this, then you will hunt around and download many other tracks that people have designed,

Aaaargh! I think I know exactly where you are coming from. I currently have more than 2,000 DOOM levels installed on the computer I am writing this at, some of which I authored myself. Oh, God, don't tell me it's going to start all over again...

Incidentally, the best DOOM level in the history of the universe is a level called UAC_DEAD, written by Leo Martin Lim. I tried to contact him through the email address in the DOOM info that accompanied the level, but no luck...

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

I'll start by saying that I'm not a fan of racing games. But I needed to put this out and see what you guys thought.

The one major criticism I see about the GT series is the lack of car damage. I understand that this is due to the wishes of the companies, which is ridiculous, but I can't get past it. I just find it funny how this sort of fits into this simulator/game debate. On one hand, in a typical flashy joy-ride type game, the cars would be damageable. On the other hand, you would think that in a simulation you would want things as real as possible.

I don't know, I just find it funny.

And by the way, you should check out Game Revolution's review. I think it's pretty fair as far as I can tell.

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

And by the way, you should check out Game Revolution's review. I think it's pretty fair as far as I can tell.

And, quoting the review...

GT3 contains some of the most realistic physics in a racing game. If you plan on being a successful driver, you'll have to treat each race like you're driving a real car. Don't even think about taking the 90 degree turn at 300mph, 'cuz it just won't happen. Gran Turismo 3 is indeed the "real driving simulator."

This is a typical statement made by someone who has only ever played console/arcade racing games.

Just because the car will understeer and slide off the track if you go too fast, doesn't mean the physics are realistic. This game has what's called FAR physics: "Feels About Right". In other words, they code in a little wheel slippage and tune it until it's fun to play with one of those otherwise-maddening console controllers.

I will concede that it's probably the most simulator-like console racer to date. But as long as you still play console games with one of those sex-toy-sized vibrating controllers, there will always be a yawning gap between console racer and simulator.

That's not to say that GT3 isn't fun. There's nothing wrong with making a fun racing game with FAR physics. In fact, I prefer the arcade-style racing games on the PC to the realistic simulators. For instance, one of my favorites is Touring Car Challenge 2. It's got that same kind of balance between simulator and arcade racer that the GT3 fans are talking about. I love it. There's no way I could ever complete even a lap in a realistic simulator like Grand Prix Legends.

My gripe isn't that GT3 is a FAR-physics game. My gripe is that teeny-bopper console-only reviewers make statements like "realistic physics" and "true simulator" about it. If they want real, they should try some of the Papyrus games and see how long they can stay on the track.

I gotta admit, though, GT3 does look pretty damn awesome. Saw it at E3, they had rows of racer-pods with full seats and steering wheel controllers. Pretty darn cool.

___________
Tony Fabris

TOCA Touring Car II, is what I use to get ready for UK track days in my real car. TOCA has decent physics and the tracks are pretty much spot on for the real thing. GPL still gets my vote as the most realistic ( read really hard to learn ).

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Rod, UK Mk2 64gig Red S/No.341 2xDell RioReceiver

TOCA has decent physics and the tracks are pretty much spot on for the real thing.

Yeah, but you'll have to agree that TOCA's feel is still very arcade-y compared to the realistic sims from Papyrus. The physics are a decent balance between arcade and sim, but it's not a real sim by any stretch of the imagination.

I mean, I got a more realistic feel from Papyrus' original "Indy Car Racing" (the DOS one with VGA graphics that ran great on a 386) than I do from TOCA.

My only problem with TOCA is that I've got no feeling for when the snap oversteer is going to happen on any of the cars. I can't feel the breakaway coming like I could on Indy Car Racing. One review of TOCA said it seemed like the snap oversteer was coded in as an afterthought, and I have to agree. It seems "tacked on" to me, as if there were a line of code saying, "if carG > maxG then doSpinout();". I can never anticipate it and I lose control to oversteer far too often.

On the other hand, I can think of one driving game that felt 100 percent realistic to me: Atari's "Hard Drivin'" in the arcades. When it first came out, and when the hardware was new and in working order, it was the most realistic-feeling driving game I've ever played. Nowadays, if you happen to find a machine, the force feedback steering and the shifter are almost invariably broke (or operating poorly), and it's no fun.

But when a Hard Drivin' machine is in tip-top shape, it is a sublime experience. I can literally drag that Ferrari right up to the hairy edge of gip, and actually FEEL the car begin to break loose. It's more than just the presence of feedback steering. The feedback was so perfectly tuned that I could predictably bring the car to the edge of losing control without going over. And when the car slid into understeer or snapped into oversteer, it never felt wrong. I always knew why it had happened.

But the most amazing part of Hard Drivin' was your ability to actually CORRECT an understeer or oversteer condition realistically. In most arcade racers, a spinout is a spinout, and once you lose control, there's nothing you can do. In Hard Drivin', you could feel it coming, and add/remove throttle, or feather the brake, or correct your steering, and the car would behave predictably.

Now. If they could just remake Hard Drivin' with the GT3 graphics engine, we'd be SET.

___________
Tony Fabris