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#371178 - 16/08/2018 03:50 TV Mount
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
Ok folks, I've been trying not to ask about my jobs recently, but this one has me stumped.

Take a look at the attached photo. Now, chose a manor in which to mount an 82" TV.

Imagine that the 600x400 VESA pattern is roughly centered on the back of the TV (because it is). It clearly won't fit above the brick outcroppings (supports for a long-gone mantle). There are full motion mounts that will fit between those outcroppings and the fireplace that can support a TV that size, and the positioning wouldn't be too bad. I'm just concerned about structural integrity. I'd have to attach at the mortar line just above the last row of bricks, and I worry they wouldn't be able to take the pressure.

I'm also concerned about the mortar. It's inset fairly deeply, like around half an inch. I worry about getting enough purchase on whatever fastener I choose (haven't decided between tapcon or good old plastic concrete anchor yet - or both).

I've even considered one of those mounts you pull away and down from the wall. I found one that will work well and only runs a minor $500.


Attachments
IMG_0096.JPG (49 downloads)

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Matt

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#371179 - 16/08/2018 05:19 Re: TV Mount [Re: Dignan]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3518
Loc: Columbus, OH
Are you allowed to remove those outcroppings? What's behind the brick? Any reason why you aren't considering a metal sleeve anchor made for masonry?

If it were my place, I'd take out the mortar around those outcroppings and ideally clean up and re-use the same brick to fill the space. Once the mortar was dry, I'd use metal sleeve anchors, at least 4", to bolt a mount to the wall, then hang the TV.

Alternatively, if modifying the brick isn't an option, I'd make spacer block[s] out of wood and bolt them to the wall with the aforementioned sleeve anchors or metal anchors and lag bolts. Countersink the bolt heads with a spade bit so it doesn't interfere with your mount. Then lag the tv mount to the spacer[s]. You'd want the thickness of your spacer to be the length of the outcropping, less the depth of your mounting bracket, plus half an inch or so for clearance. Looks to me like a couple pieces of 4x4, mounted vertically would do the trick.
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~ John

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#371180 - 16/08/2018 13:40 Re: TV Mount [Re: Dignan]
jmwking
addict

Registered: 27/02/2003
Posts: 698
Loc: Washington, DC metro
Any idea what's holding the brick to the wall? (I'm thinking of that hammock that pulled a brick column down and killed a kid a few years ago.)

Can you (tastefully) drop something from the structural support above the ceiling?

-jk

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#371181 - 17/08/2018 03:47 Re: TV Mount [Re: JBjorgen]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: jmwking
Any idea what's holding the brick to the wall? (I'm thinking of that hammock that pulled a brick column down and killed a kid a few years ago.)

Naturally that's my biggest concern. This is a ~96 pound TV and I don't want it falling on anyone. I honestly don't know. In general it's a good sign that it isn't just brick veneer so there should be a decent amount of structural integrity. The fireplace is around 30 years old at least, so I don't know how it's holding up, but it sounds like they haven't used it as a fireplace in ages.

My best guess is that it's up against plywood. I'm tempted to drill a small hole all the way through and see if I can get out the other side. Then I could use my old friend the snap toggle and I'd feel a lot more comfortable.


Quote:
Can you (tastefully) drop something from the structural support above the ceiling?

I like the idea of this, but all the ceiling mounts I'm looking at seem to anticipate a much larger support beam to hang from. They seem to attach to the ceiling with at least a 5"x6" plate. I guess I could just put lag bolts through two holes on one side of the plate into the joist and the other two into drywall anchors or toggle bolts, but I don't know about that. I'd also need to check which way the ceiling joists run.

Originally Posted By: JBjorgen
Are you allowed to remove those outcroppings?

I didn't ask that but I'm not sure. I don't think that sort of masonry work is really in my wheelhouse though...

Quote:
Any reason why you aren't considering a metal sleeve anchor made for masonry?

I haven't used those before and haven't had any trouble. When going through the mortar, the plastic ones do a good job of pushing against the neighboring bricks and really hold in there. As long as the hole is drilled right and then cleaned out, it holds really well. Sometimes I'll use some adhesive.

Quote:
If it were my place, I'd take out the mortar around those outcroppings and ideally clean up and re-use the same brick to fill the space.

I like the idea, and I can suggest this option. I'll recommend someone actually equipped for masonry though wink I know it's not super tough but still..

Quote:
Alternatively, if modifying the brick isn't an option, I'd make spacer block[s] out of wood and bolt them to the wall with the aforementioned sleeve anchors or metal anchors and lag bolts. Countersink the bolt heads with a spade bit so it doesn't interfere with your mount. Then lag the tv mount to the spacer[s]. You'd want the thickness of your spacer to be the length of the outcropping, less the depth of your mounting bracket, plus half an inch or so for clearance. Looks to me like a couple pieces of 4x4, mounted vertically would do the trick.

Elaborate! Very nice smile I guess I'd need some pretty long lag bolts for that plan, but it's a possibility.
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Matt

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#371182 - 17/08/2018 03:50 Re: TV Mount [Re: Dignan]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
The client also purchased a mount already, and while it's too big to fit in between the outcropping and the fireplace, we did come up with a weird plan. If he doesn't mind the TV being a tiny bit off-center on the fireplace, the backing plate can go around the outcropping. The arm that extends to hold the TV can then be fully-extended, moved up all the way next to the outcropping, and the TV is hung there. It would mean the TV would be off center by about one brick, but the way the furniture is laid out in the room it might not be awful.
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Matt

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#371183 - 17/08/2018 03:50 Re: TV Mount [Re: Dignan]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
BTW, here's that "out and down" mount I mentioned. Expensive, but impressive...
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Matt

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#371184 - 17/08/2018 04:13 Re: TV Mount [Re: Dignan]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
On the issue of securing the mount, I just thought of something. See the opening on the left for storing firewood? Am I right to think that it's likely that there's framing on the inside portion of that corner of brick? I could try drilling somewhere not too visible a little more than a brick's-depth back and see if the drill hits wood. Then I just need a long lag bolt and I'm in the joist where I like to be...
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Matt

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#371185 - 17/08/2018 18:06 Re: TV Mount [Re: Dignan]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4153
Loc: Cambridge, England
If the brick is structural -- if it carries on upwards and forms the chimney, like the ones you sometimes see where a wood-framed house has burned down and only the brick chimney remains standing -- then there may be no framing involved at all. On the other hand, if the brick is structural, then that means it'll be under enormous compressive force, and putting masonry anchors into it will be rock-solid.

Peter

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#371199 - 22/08/2018 05:20 Re: TV Mount [Re: Dignan]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
Hey folks. I've decided to use sleeve anchors after all. I'll have more confidence in those. Now for a different question that seems to be a completely unsettled internet debate:

Do I drill into the brick or the mortar?
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Matt

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#371200 - 22/08/2018 12:04 Re: TV Mount [Re: Dignan]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14002
Loc: Canada
Normally into the mortar. It is (MUCH!) easier, and can easily be repaired again should the mount ever be removed.

Also, many kinds of bricks have hollow centres, so the mortar will give a better grip (no gaps). If the sleeves are at all loose, or if you have any doubts about them holding, then beef things up with epoxy.

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#371204 - 22/08/2018 22:56 Re: TV Mount [Re: Dignan]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3518
Loc: Columbus, OH
Yes. What Mark said. If you can't put all 4 in mortar due to the placement of the mounting bolts, put the upper ones in mortar and the bottom ones into the brick.
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~ John

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#371205 - 22/08/2018 23:53 Re: TV Mount [Re: JBjorgen]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14002
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: JBjorgen
If you can't put all 4 in mortar due to the placement of the mounting bolts, put the upper ones in mortar and the bottom ones into the brick.

Excellent advice!

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#371206 - 23/08/2018 03:54 Re: TV Mount [Re: Dignan]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
Thanks, folks! I did the install this morning and it went well. I went a little overboard and used a total of 7 sleeve anchors, so that thing isn't going anywhere. The chimney will fall down first. I put liquid nails on two of the top ones and two on the bottom.

The sleeve anchors were a pretty big pain to deal with. Maybe I didn't have the embedment depth correct. Or I might have done things in a bit of an incorrect order.

Fortunately, the mount lined up nearly perfectly along two mortar lines. I've always gone into the mortar before but was starting to doubt myself once I saw a ton of debate online. I've gone into brick too when necessary, but agree with your assessments that it's easy to chip/blowout and hard to drill through. The mortar cuts like butter with a halfway decent bit.

I've attached shots of the job.


Attachments
IMG_0478.JPG

IMG_0480.JPG

IMG_0481.JPG

IMG_0486.JPG

IMG_0487.JPG


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Matt

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#371207 - 23/08/2018 03:56 Re: TV Mount [Re: Dignan]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
BTW, the client seemed uninterested in how the cables would be routed (though there's plenty of room in the mortar). He's also happy with the positioning of the TV and this is pretty much exactly what he wanted. The fireplace is never used so that's not a factor.

Thanks again for the assistance, everyone.
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Matt

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#371209 - 23/08/2018 12:34 Re: TV Mount [Re: Dignan]
Tim
veteran

Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1487
Loc: Arizona
That fireplace is gorgeous. It is a damn shame it isn't used.

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#371216 - 24/08/2018 03:52 Re: TV Mount [Re: Tim]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5402
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Originally Posted By: Tim
That fireplace is gorgeous. It is a damn shame it isn't used.


My fireplace:


Attachments
P1120060-W1200.jpg


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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#371217 - 24/08/2018 06:01 Re: TV Mount [Re: Tim]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3518
Loc: Columbus, OH
Originally Posted By: Tim
That fireplace is gorgeous. It is a damn shame it isn't used.


Not to mention that the TV seems a bit excessive for this space. But hey - 'Merica!

Originally Posted By: Dignan
Now, chose a manor in which to mount an 82" TV.


I agree, the size would fit better in a manor than in this house wink
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~ John

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#371218 - 24/08/2018 13:32 Re: TV Mount [Re: JBjorgen]
Tim
veteran

Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1487
Loc: Arizona
We have a simulation lab at work that has a display screen that is 3,800 sq ft.

A friend mentioned that the screen is slightly larger than his 5 bed 3 bath house.

I never realized that an 82" television could seem so... tiny.

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#371219 - 24/08/2018 14:24 Re: TV Mount [Re: JBjorgen]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12139
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: JBjorgen
Originally Posted By: Tim
That fireplace is gorgeous. It is a damn shame it isn't used.


Not to mention that the TV seems a bit excessive for this space. But hey - 'Merica!

Originally Posted By: Dignan
Now, chose a manor in which to mount an 82" TV.


I agree, the size would fit better in a manor than in this house wink

Yeah we like our TVs big over here. I agree it's a little...excessive. To be fair his main viewing location is about 20 feet away, though there are closer seating locations as well.

I personally feel like if you want to go over 70" you might as well go with a projector and go really big.
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Matt

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