Well... I've been through all of the lists for Mercedes. The adapter I was hoping for, doesn't seem to exist. So, my options have dropped to a few....

1> Rip the whole damn MB sound system out, replace with my own aftermarket stuff, including the Empeg.
Pro:
a> Probably the best sound.
b> Empeg is back in control.
Cons:
a> Lose the warranty, since a hell of a lot of the computer goes through the same pathways.
b> Lose the steering wheel controls, which also control a fair amount of the car's functionality.
c> It's going to cost a shitload of money.

2> Find a FM transmitter of decent quality that takes 12V DC and RCA ins. Mount Empeg below radio in the dash, and have a preset.

Pro:
a> shouldn't cost very much past the installation charge (custom making an mounting adapter for the empeg.)
b> integrates ok with the MB stuff, and I don't lose the controls.
c> Easy to pull should I sell the car.

Con:
a> Isn't going to sound any better than the FM radio. (which is pretty good, but...)


1 isn't going to happen. As much as I'd love to rip the stereo out and drop my own stuff in, I can't lose the functionality, and don't really want to get into the job of pulling all of the equipment out and reinstalling stock when I sell the car.

2 seems to be a pretty good compromise, IF I can find a decent transmitter. Therefore... Anyone have any recommendations?

Crutchfield has exactly what you need... You can also get one at your local stereo shop. It connects in series with your antenna and will modulate the audio to an unused FM channel. Just make sure you get one with the correct antenna connectors.

A company in the US has a kit for a digital tuned FM stereo transmiter. the company can be found here. http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=FM25

I also would like to construct a box to use my player in other cars.

check www.riocar.org I would like to controll the transmit frequency thru the empeg.

Crutchfield has exactly what you need... You can also get one at your local stereo shop. It connects in series with your antenna and will modulate the audio to an unused FM channel. Just make sure you get one with the correct antenna connectors.



That is EXACTLY what I need. I looked at Crutchfield, but didn't find it the first time... Looking in the wrong area I guess. Thanks for the link.

I'm hoping the SQ is ok... I've been in my new baby (C230K) for a couple of weeks, and love it, but I'm missing my old baby(empeg) and having to deal with a 6 disc changer only....

I can hardly wait to get it installed again... And will HAVE to get an aluminium fascia for it to match the aluminium trim....

Have you gone to a merc dealer and tryed to find someone that is switched on and technical.

Option 3 if a cd changer is avalable it might have an audio output/input from the cd changer which you might be able to splice into

option 4 there will be an amp of some sort somewhere maybe which you could feed into as that is what some folk have done with and sound system in the audi TT

Perhaps you can find adapter which transforms your factory head unit's CD changer inputs into AUX-in? That way you would probably get much better sound than via FM.

option 5 pull the plugs off the back of the mb speakers, mount an amp in the boot/somewhere, run from amp to speakers as normal fit the empeg under the dash as transmitter plan and run RCAs to amp.
When time comes to sell car whatever return plugs remove empeg and you be back to norm.

You can also get modules that take a high level output from speakers and drop it down to a low level input for an amp so you could take a feed from one of the speakers into this and then into empeg aux and you have anything that is piped to them from mb system such as sat nav commands.

Perhaps you can find adapter which transforms your factory head unit's CD changer inputs into AUX-in? That way you would probably get much better sound than via FM.



Been there, done that.

That was my first try. MB uses a Fiber-optic connection between EVERYTHING. The Changer has a dual fiber input to it. It's actually pretty cool, but there isn't an aftermarket add-in for it yet (and probably not for at least a year, based on my conversations).

I HAD one of those (actually I still do) for Alpine that I hoped would work, but recently they moved the whole control system over to Fiber. It's still Alpine, but it's a F*cked up protocol from what I can tell. The Radio and changer have to be programmed see each other on the bus... They will work at first when you do the installation, but after about a week or two, enough errors will be generated, that the MB computer shuts the changer down. Then, go to MB, let them hook up a laptop to the system, and program it. It will work without a problem then.

It's sort of cool having a car this intelligent, but I've heard horror stories about getting the system to accept aftermarket parts. If the part doesn't generate exactly the same current draw or signals, it shuts it down. Try replacing the headlights with Hids? (55w normal H7 bulbs, with 35W HID system... ) The computer sees less of a draw, assumes something is wrong, and shuts them down to prevent damage. Tell it you have Hids installed, and click, everything works well.

Ugh! Perhaps you should really go the FM route, then...

Of course, it did not appear to designers of this marvel to provide AUX input....

i like having a dum car where they still use wires

Ugh! Perhaps you should really go the FM route, then...

Of course, it did not appear to designers of this marvel to provide AUX input....



Well... Truth be told.... The Comand system (MB's Nav gear, with lcd and all) does apparently have an aux in capability. It's not advertised, and it's not easy to get to, but it is possible.

The problem is : a> I don't have it, on this car. b> it's really sorta a piece of junk, and c> I can't put it in this car without about $5K of modifications, plus the MB tech time.

The other problem is that with it installed, there is no space available for the empeg...

FM it is. The good news is that the tuner in the MB is really pretty good. That Clarion module looks to be pretty good, so I'm hoping there isn't going to be a huge drop in quality. I mean MOST of the degradation of FM is from the Station compressing the [censored] out of the music, and dropping freq, so it sounds good on ALL cars, right? Plus of course, the signal levels are going to vary, and wave patterns are going to be affected by the terrain...

That SHOULDN'T happen in this kit.... I'm guessing I'll see a bit of a reduction in the dynamic range, due to bandwidth capabilities, but otherwise, it should be a clean signal. Unfortunately, I have no experience in the FM changer field...I always went for the headunit controlled variety before.

Your suggestion of wiring an amp to the speakers would still work. There's no way they're running optical to the speakers. :)

The empeg should be able to be hooked up as a preamp for the MB radio, using its speaker outputs (even if you have to fish them from elsewhere in the car with additional wiring) using a line-level converter.

Bruno

i like having a dum car where they still use wires


he he he.

I was actually pretty shocked when I found out that the throttle linkup is fly by wire.... It's not a direct connection. The gas pedal feeds an actuator, that the computer works off of. Then, dependant on the throttle position, it opens the gas, adjusts the fuel map, etc. Plus, it also looks at the rate of change on the throttle position, and adjusts the transmission responsiveness. Slowly apply the gas... it acts one way... Punch the pedal, and the transmission jumps about 4 gears.

It's cool.

Downside.... MB in the USA doesn't even have the OPTION of an indash CD player. Tape only. You want CD's, buy the $900 changer.

I wouldn't guess that one of Empeg's OEM customers was MB.....

in dash tape use the empeg travel kit method as small tape adaptor for using a personnel cd player with a in dash tape player quick and dirty but it will get you running

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A company in the US has a kit for a digital tuned FM stereo transmiter. the company can be found here. http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=FM25

I also would like to construct a box to use my player in other car.

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I purchased an FM25b from Ramsey so I could hook my Empeg up to it. Now I can listen to my Empeg all over the house! It took approximately 5 hours to assemble and has excellent sound quality.

In the past before I had my Empeg, I purchased that RF modulator from Crutchfield for my NEO and was disatisfied with the sound. It really gave the music a "muffled sound," so I ended up buying a new head unit with an Aux input.

A couple of weeks ago I had a rental car, while my car was being painted and missed my Empeg badly. So I hooked up the Empeg and FM25b to the cigeratte lighter. The sound quality was quite good, as it is in my house.

You'll find many uses for the FM25b. I also take it with me when I DJ, so I can setup a couple of radios in areas where people can't hear the music. This prevents me from blasting the people who are sitting close to my main speakers during dinner.

Have you talked to the people at www.peripheral-aamp.com ? They do make CD-changer products for a number of Mercedes vehicles.

You should also seek the help of Mercedes themselves. They should have parts to facilitate addition of new non-Mercedes gear.

This would be reason enough for me to not buy a vehicle. And it's something I'll make sure to ask of any dealer in the future.

Bruno

Your suggestion of wiring an amp to the speakers would still work. There's no way they're running optical to the speakers. :)

The empeg should be able to be hooked up as a preamp for the MB radio, using its speaker outputs (even if you have to fish them from elsewhere in the car with additional wiring) using a line-level converter.



That's true, and it certainly could be done. Choosing the correct set of leads might be fun, as there is 7 speaks, including the center channel. There is some digital processing done on it for driver's position and crap like that. Plus, I don't want to get into putting an amp and new system into this car though. It's not going to be nearly as easy to do as the old GS-R. And unfortunately, I'm getting lazy in my old (29 years) age.

More to the point, I'm looking for something that can pull quickly and easily if I move cars again. Getting the GS-R gear pulled and replaced was a b*tch, and it wasn't nearly as involved as this would be.

I just GOT TO get back to the Empeg... It's sitting on my desk at work... Watching the timeplot is just TOO cool... I NEED this in the MB...

in dash tape use the empeg travel kit method as small tape adaptor for using a personnel cd player with a in dash tape player quick and dirty but it will get you running


Won't work.... the tape retracts into the dash, and closes a door behind it... Which doesn't close with the wire, and the thing stops and beeps at you. Alot.

Tried that the first night.

Have you talked to the people at www.peripheral-aamp.com ? They do make CD-changer products for a number of Mercedes vehicles.

You should also seek the help of Mercedes themselves. They should have parts to facilitate addition of new non-Mercedes gear.

This would be reason enough for me to not buy a vehicle. And it's something I'll make sure to ask of any dealer in the future.


Yup. They were the first guy's I DID talk to. They don't have anything for the new systems yet. From talking to them, they ARE working on it, but it's looking like it will be a while.

Mercedes (the local dealer) is being very helpful about it... much better than I expected. However, Mercedes (MBUSA) is not. They have the lock in, and are using it. Their incar phone system uses Motorola phones that have been modded with a chip to make them the only phones capable of being used in the car. It's a $800 premium to get that chip. (standard phone runs about $400, the MB phone is @$1200). Mercedes (Worldwide) does not have this limitation. Of course, worldwide, they use GSM phones...

More and more systems are coming like this, I'm afraid. It's one of the reasons Empeg went to the OEM market from what I understand.

In the past before I had my Empeg, I purchased that RF modulator from Crutchfield for my NEO and was disatisfied with the sound. It really gave the music a "muffled sound," so I ended up buying a new head unit with an Aux input.


The Clarion was bad? but the FM25B sounded better, even without a direct antenna connection?

Well, keep us informed on progress. If the solution turns out to be satisfactory, it might save some other empegger blood, sweat and tears. :)

The more i read this the more i like my ten year old BMW with nice little things like throttle cable and i don't even want to think about how fly by wire brakes work when the fuse blows.

To be entirly honest i would not buy a car that complicated.

i once had a audi and the relay for the fuel pump blew so to get home under the rear seat the cable for the rear fogs passed by the cable for the fuel pump so i spliced the two together and drove around like that for a week.

Another old car the clutch cable broke so i had to drive about 100miles clutchless

Also i ran an old van and the altenator died being poor i could not afford to get a new one so i got too old fishing boat batterys that i could lay my hands on and drove around with them in the boot and charged them up every couple of days

Try that with fibre optics it won't work.

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The Clarion was bad? but the FM25B sounded better, even without a direct antenna connection?

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Yes. The problem I feel is that they have a brick wall filter that has too steep a slope and it's cutting out some of the high frequency information.

If the solution turns out to be satisfactory, it might save some other empegger blood, sweat and tears. :)


Especially the tears. :)

I'm going to go talk to a local installer that does most of the custom work for the the country (ick) stars around here (Nashville). We'll see what he can do.

Should know something next week.

my ten year old BMW with nice little things like throttle cable and i don't even want to think about how fly by wire brakes work when the fuse blows.


Given the tolerances on this car, plus it's unwillingness to work with anything OUT of spec, I'm not worried too much about the above problem. Without a doubt, this car is complicated. Without a doubt, you have to have a CS major to be fully competent in repairing this car.

Ok.

I don't expect to have the problems you are referring to, simply because the computer IS monitoring everything. When a component starts to go out, It's going to let you know, and you get it fixed. It's not a car that you are going to be able to kludge back together, and that's ok. Hell, you go into the reserve on the gas tank, and this car practically screams at you. You have an alternating display going from the range left on the tank to Visit a fuel center SOON! on the display.

I'd much rather deal with a car that is more solid state than mechanical. Less to break.

The problem I feel is that they have a brick wall filter that has too steep a slope and it's cutting out some of the high frequency information.


Ugh. I was really hoping that it would work well. It's just the right size and matchup for me. Plus the fact that the FM25B is a kit for twice the money. The money part I'm not worried about, the soldering I am.

Hmmmm.

I supose but i am a very metal person as i be a marine engineer where it is metal good electronics bad. but that said the new generation of engines coming out everything is computer controled with exhaust vavles controled by a black box not a camshaft.

To be entirly honest i would not buy a car that complicated.

Ah, but you're falling into the trap that I hear so many grumpy old curmudgeons (like myself) complain of: "These new cars are so complicated you can't fix them yourself anymore. What a bogus deal that is..."

I'm here to tell you -- I've been both places: simple old cars you can fix yourself; and complicated new cars you can't fix yourself. And new cars are better!

Most of you are too young to remember the bad old days... when you traded a car in at 40,000 miles not because you wanted the status and new-car smell of a new car, but because at 40K your old car was worn out.

Remember every 3,000 miles doing a tuneup? "Points-Plugs-and-Condenser" was considered to be one word.

How about a 1-year, 12,000 mile warranty?

Drum brakes were nice -- you could change the brake shoes yourself -- and as long as you didn't want make more than two high-speed stops in the same 5 minute period, or stay in a straight line while you applied them, they worked just fine.

Somebody who got 100,000 miles out of his engine was an object of awe and admiration. You'd do an upper-end overhaul (valves and piston rings) at about 50,000 miles.

Given the choice, I'd much rather have a car that I can't fix myself that rarely needs fixing and goes 10,000 miles between scheduled maintenance stops instead of some ineptly engineered vehicle designed and built so crudely that even I could work on it.

Modern cars, in no small part because of their electronic complexity, far outperform their predecessors in every aspect: acceleration, braking, cornering, reliability, cost of operation, comfort, you name it. And amazingly enough, they cost less now than they did 30 years ago. (That's cost in real terms: how many hours do you have to work to purchase the car.)

So, yes, I'll happily take my overly complex computer-run, long-lived, high-performing car. You couldn't pay me to go back to the cars of 30 years ago. But, as I said, I'm a grumpy old curmudgeon. YMMV.

tanstaafl.

Word.

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that rarely needs fixing and goes 10,000 miles between scheduled maintenance stops

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Oh! I don't even have those!!!! I've got a flexible Service system! Currently (after 2k miles... Suckers are pilling on quick, thanks to the holidays) I've got 9700 miles before I'm supposed to take it in. The car itself is still breaking itself in.... The computer is limiting the performance and beefing up the fuel map to break it in better than a human ever could. At 6k miles, the car is done, and you get a nice performance boost plus better gas mileage.

But the FSS is very cool. Run it hard, and you can watch the service interval get shorter... Take it easy on a long trip and it goes back up. It's got a maximum service interval of 20k miles.

As you said... the computers have their advantages...

i agree completely about modern cars are far better than older ones

what does worry me is the fact that it is getting to the point where you have to take your car to a main dealer as they are the only ones that have the software to service your car. I would object to paying over 50pound an hour for the serices of someone that is paid 7pound an hour.

If there was an open standard great i would be all for it but there ain't

I won't even start on my thoughts about kwik fit though