Originally Posted By: wfaulk

You're oversimplifying it. If you can guarantee that you're starting from a steady state, then, yes, activities are nothing more than macros. But you can't guarantee that, even with discrete codes.


As background, I previously designed a system that's in many ways comparable to what Harmony has on their remotes. But better of course. I don't have all those remotes because I simply enjoy having one of every high end remote made.

I'm not simplifying anything, I'm stating that the two concepts are NOT the same and NOT the same "type" or "class" or "subject," therefore also not contradictory. Macros make part of any good activity-related paradigm. Macros should not be compared VERSUS activities because the former is a tool while the latter is a use or functional paradigm. One is wine and the other is a party. One is an animal, the other a zoo. Hope I'm being clear.

On to the rest... I DO agree with the bigger point you're trying to make however. A product that has only the ability to send single IR codes and manually created macro sequences will not be as seamless (friendly, fool-proof in general) as one that has the ability to track state. That's a given and anyone trying to argue otherwise is mistaken.

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And that's a really basic example. When you start having to control more things, and selecting separate audio and video inputs, etc., macros become completely useless.

That said, the fact that the Harmony remotes barely have any macro facilities is bad, since there are some things that are impossible to do with activities. Say, for example, turning on closed captioning when it requires that you go through a menu.


BItt, unfortunately your examples don't relate to the real world and they're actually incorrect. But as mentioned, I still understand the larger point you're trying to make.

The Harmony remotes only lack exposing a UI to the consumer for complex or arbitrary Macros (for instance the ability to add a macro to any button). But they do expose some configurable Macro functionality. And as I said, they have the most powerful and configurable macro capabilities of any remote ever made, it's just all handled in their web software.

When you upload your configuration to the remote you're actually (for the most part) sending up a brand new firmware custom configured with all the pre-generated macros. The remotes themselves are rather dumb in this sense, the whole program for them being generated on the web side and then uploaded.

With regards to terminology, you're stuck on the exact thing I was warning people not to get stuck on. Focusing on the difference between a manually created macro and one that's obscured within a larger usage paradigm. A macro is a "sequence" - a meta unit made up of individual building blocks, which in this case are individual IR codes.

All high end remotes have them. Harmony doesn't have arbitrary macro editing facilities for attaching custom sequences to any button. Even with the closest feature they have allowing you to group multiple IR codes, you cannot be certain of the order of the sequence.

On the back end, Harmony support people can put together any form of custom macro their hearts desire. The remote can be custom configured well beyond what is exposed to the customer at the web panel level.

A fully programmable remote with temporary and persistent variables could be custom configured to act exactly like a Harmony remote apart from its "Help" button. Which would obviously need some custom code that you wouldn't be able to throw onto just any remote (to run through your variables and format questions based on your devices).

And back to something else I said originally, there are many (many) tricks that can be used to try and ensure a specific state for devices that lack discretes. Anyway, better remotes support variables to track state (which is what the Harmony does).

To finish this off, the Harmony is pretty much the only "better" remote sold retail. All other products are generally sold only through the CI (custom installer) market and need professional installation. Such installation could be accomplished by most people on this board, but is well beyond the scope of the vast majority of consumers. You *can* buy all remotes intended for the CI market through specialty retail (mostly online) as well. Sometimes only "unofficially" though and you won't have the manufacturer's blessing - and in some cases warranty.

I've forgotten more about this stuff than most people will ever know. That's not an exaggeration either. wink I might start getting back into the more complex IR sequence and state logic subject in the near future though (some interesting opportunities have just come up).
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software