> Muzza, the Patriot Act isn't just for anybody doing "anything" illegal. It's to protect against terrorists who are actively in our country plotting against it.

Except it gives the power to the goverment the right to call anyone they want a terrorist, and furthermore, regardless of what it is meant to do, it is already being used in cases where there is plainly no terrorism. In fact, Ashcroft is actively telling people to use it non-terror related cases, and even has a roving seminar to tell local law enforcement how to do so. To even suggest at this point that it is for terrorism only is ludicrous, because it is already untrue, and who knows how many attrocities we will see further down the road.

> The truth of the matter is that the US is afraid right now.

Yeah, and Bush and his administration have maniplated that fear expertly. I think to Ashcroft, terror is not even really on his mind, he just wants to increase police power at any cost.

> ninti, if you disagree with just about EVERYHING I've said, I don't really thnk that we can have a rational give and take here.

Well, I did say "pretty much" everything. Yeah, we are about 180 degrees apart on the political spectrum, but I do have some respect for you. At least you argue rationally and without too much rancor and vitriol and rampant stupidity.

> But I didn't really HATE the Democrat party after 9/11 when I saw them paint themselves into a corner where anything that was good for our country became bad for them simply because it was happening during Bush's presidency.

Did we watch the same party? I became disgusted with the Democrats because they did not stand up to Bush at all and let them walk all over him because they were afraid. They didn't say enough, and they didn't do anything, to stop Bush from walking over the constitution and start his own personal war.

As for the Australian parlimant members; Bush doesn't allow anyone to criticize him to his face here. He doesn't hold press conferences, he illegally keeps protestors behind fences blocks away from anywhere he goes. Nobody here can stand up to him to his face, I am glad someone somewhere did.

Oh, and SE, we do agree on one thing, I think Linux is not ready for the general public to use yet too.