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This whole concept is absurd. Does any clear thinking person actually thinks that Karl Rove had something to do with this? I am no fan of the DNC, but even I would never accuse them of being behind this, and it makes far more sense for some low-level DNC person to have cooked this up than Karl Rove.


(I think in the first case above you meant "RNC"?)

I think of myself of a pretty clear-headed person and usually manage to avoid being mocked as a wild-eyed conspiracy theorist, but I could not help post my little poll here -- thought it might stumulate a little discussion!. I don't *know* or have incriminating evidence with respect to *anyone*'s original involvement with the creation of the forgeries. What I could see, though, was that "The National Guard Years" was one place where the media was fueling up to look at Bush -- it was happening whether the Republicans liked it or not -- and it was one of the very few places where Kerry could compare himself favorably (Kerry *really* can't credibly attack Bush over the war).


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If Rove were to have done this, he would have had access to actual documents to use as a guide. The font and type setting issues are only the first layer of problems with this. Even if an era type writer were used, these documents would suffer from inaccuracies. I suspect Rove or Joe Lockhart would have done a much more convincing job.


To serve Lockhart's purposes, forgeries would need to be good forgeries -- they would need to "stick" until November 3rd. To serve Rove's purposes (in my conspiracy model!!) the forgeries would need to be pretty easy to spot in order to achieve the desired effect -- help discredit the included criticisms of W -- and neutralize subsequent W-TANG coverage in the last weeks before the election. The complete crudeness of the fakes argues against this to some extent, but what if better forgeries remained in dispute until November 3rd? Bad for W.

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Just because this works perfectly for the Republicans doesn't imply that they are behind it.


Amazing that it worked so well, though, and I wouldn't put it past them. Rove and crew are earning their paycheck. Of course they are facing one of the weakest candidates the Democrats could have put forward. Somebody who voted for the Iraq War and who has a years-long, CYA, middle-of-the-road congressional record with which they can be repeatedly whipped. They have aimed successfully at Kerry's strength -- the only thing he had to trumpet -- with the Swift Boat Veterans Still Pissed at Jane Fonda ads.

When I first heard of these memos and the questions of their authenticity, all I could think was "What a perfect one-two punch" on the whole war hero thing.

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I believe that what truly happened is that someone cooked this up (maybe Burkett) and gave it to the DNC and CBS. Both parties were blinded by their eagerness to "nab" Bush and ran with it. A week prior to the airing (just as CBS reportedly began production of the final piece) the DNC launched their "Fortunate Son" campaign. Nice timing.


It gets worse. I am all for "nabbing" Bush because I believe he deserves it ten times over, but CBS is going to get on my enemies list. What can living, honorable veterans of CBS such as Cronkite and Schorr think? Our democracy isn't screwe up enough?

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I don't think either side knew or suspected they had fake papers. They were blinded by their hatred for Bush into thinking "it must be true".


Well, funny thing is, it looks like it *is* quite true, but CBS just got an F on their exam for cheating.

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It reminds me of all the crazy theories about the Clinton's knocking off adversaries. Because they "knew" it was true before they even had the fake papers, they never bothered looking into it and ignored sources that didn't backup what they said. For the DNC, this is disgraceful, but expected in the politics in 2004 (sadly). For CBS, it is inexcusable. They systematically threw out any comments by people who disputed the documents or by people who might be sympathetic to Bush. Yet they built their story on testimony from people who clearly had an axe to grind with Bush. A journalism student in junior high would have done a better job at balancing sources. Even to this day, they are referring to Burkett as a "former guardsman" and don't mention he was in the Army guard, not the Air Force or that he has long campaigned against Bush. A Google search shows even more.


I won't try to dissuade you from hating CBS, but I hope you will allow me to hate them more if they manage to help re-elect Shrub -- the net effect of this tempest, IMO.

I am not the first to say it, but people who have decided that they are going to vote for Shrub don't really care that he was a dissolute, substance-abusing adolescent, rich kid and inconstant member of the military, because (drum roll...) he has been saved. And how can you fulfill the wonders of salvation if you weren't a sinner?

With the exposure of these fak/xed memos, what the Bush campaign gains is a shield against further media inquiry into his non-service and less negative play with the few remaining undecided voters in battleground states.

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So, like I said, their hatred blinded them into ignoring the facts. Kind of like how someone's hatred for Karl Rove would make them think that HE did all this with his pinky finger at the side of his mouth! Or maybe it's just hard for Democrats to accept the fact that someone on "their side" was dumb enough to do this? Who is more fool, the fool or the fool who follows the fool? I'll vote for CBS.



Just to clarify. I am not a Democrat. I will likely choke back my own vomit as I voite for Kerry. But then again, I would likely vote for a rusty faucet over Shrub. New uplifting slogan "Kerry: Not sure he'll do better, but he can't do worse!"

Your mockery of my harping on Rove leaves me feeling you are being a bit naive. George Bush said he was *very* interested in finding out who outed CIA agent Valerie Plame to columnist Robert Novak. This was likely either Rove or Libby. Hmmmm, it doesn't seem that Bush has gotten to the bottom of that. Come to think of it, I think he was lying again. He values the Rove/Libby counsel too much to have them go to jail.

Maybe it is all those Watergate hearings I watched on TV. They probably rotted my brain.
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.