Interesting. As the reverend said, it's hard to separate marriage from religion because the state recognizes it as a religious institution (despite us patting ourselves on the back about separation of church and state). I see the dilemma.

i don't buy into this. marriage may have started as a religious institution (in our western society, as someone pointed out), but it really has been overshadowed as a civil institution. you can go to a justice and be legally married. the clergy is now acting as an agent of the government ("by the power vested in me...") in performing marriage, not the other way around.

That's true. My dad, as a member of the priesthood in my church, has to be licensed by the province (in Canada), and state (in the US) to perform marriages that are to be recognized by the government. In addition to that, there is a very specific phrasing that he has to use during the ceremony.

As for my experiences with how homosexuality and gay marriages has been perceived by the various communities I've lived in, well, it's essentially been as varied as the communities I've been in. Out on the prarie provinces, it didn't get much mention, and was largely kept under the carpet. Then AIDS became big news, and all of a sudden the homosexual aspect of society got exposure, and, needless to say, a lot of bad press. Then I went to a university that had a very large, and very vocal gay/lesbian support structure -- so much so that every incoming student had to sit through the 1-in-10 speech (which was more entertaining for the guy pulling a condom over his head to demonstrate that "I don't use condoms 'cuz my dick is too big" is not a viable excuse for not using condoms). After university, I moved to Toronto, and ended up living a couple blocks from the rainbow flag district. Quite the education, that was. Everyone knew where it was, and it didn't attract much attention from anyone, except perhaps for the curiosity seekers. The pride weekend is a huge event, and has some major streets blocked off for a parade. Last year, the (non-gay) mayor joined in the parade. The event gets a little bit of negative protest, but less so about the homosexuality than the nudity. IIRC, gay marriage has come up a couple times in various provincial/national legislature, but I don't remember whether or not they were ever legalized. I think there might have been a discrimination case about it in the Canadian Supreme Court. Either way, it's definately being discussed.

On to my current experience -- my current neighbour is a gay black male that grew up in Oakland. From conversations with him, it seems to still be a non-topic much of the time, since the people asking for it are a small minority of a small minority. As for the promiscuity bit, he admitted to having done the whole bathhouse/anonymous bar sex thing, and said that the prevailing attitude seemed to be "since we're already outside the sexual mores of society, why should we confine ourselves to the sexual morality that society establishes as being proper," mixed with a healthy dose of "it's not like we're getting anyone pregnant." It makes sense to me.