No, I don't think you do.

There is no proof at all, apart from that written by the hand of man, that there is any sort of creator. That is my whole point.

You can't, ever, explain it to me without reference to something that has been written in the Bible by the hand of man and translated many many times through the ages. In referencing creation itself you are referencing the Bible. There is no evidence that creation is true, but plenty that it is false. It doesn't matter how you twist it, religious belief is not science, of any sort. It's a way to make the belief system more relevant to modern times, many people rely on the Church organisations for their way of life to survive, so it makes sense that belief system evolves with the society it's within (Old Testament, New Testament anyone???).

And just because people have done something for thousands of years does not make it fact.

I can totally understand how a total U-Turn of belief is almost impossible for most religious people, the social pressure they are under makes it that way. Words can be twisted and twisted but the hard truth of the matter is there is no proof, there never will be, because there is no truth to be found.

I'm not going to comment any more, as experience has shown me it will be fruitless. Unless that is we both concede that if each of us provides enough hard evidence for our way of thinking we would be willing to truly abandon our existing belief system in favour of the one with the most conclusive evidence. I'll let you go first...

Edit - I should point out that anything written in scripture is not hard evidence in this debate. If anything a story becomes less true over time, not more true.

Cheers

Cris